It was a long standing 'common wisdom' (i.e. not really common, but still accepted by a good number of people) that universal rules such as HERO or GURPS did not serve a setting as well as a set of rules designed specifically for it.
Like many things online, few if any actually backed up this assertion with real examples, and when they did- they often were little more than Chrome style rules and had little to do with the core mechanics themselves. As a result I was always doubtful and I think the passage of time has basically disproved the concept.
Let's talk about a few often quoted examples.
Let's take Call of Cthulhu. This one was a bad example out of the gate as the original system was that from the earlier game (by three years) Runequest which was about fantasy adventure- not 1920s dark investigations. It did introduce the insanity tracking mechanic- but that was just a bit of Chrome easily added to any game. And the monsters were powerful, but that was just powerful monsters. Rules wise, there's really little there really related to the setting and there have been a number of very successful conversions to other game systems including (in the judgement of some people) D20.
The original Deadlands is a better example, sort of. Here you have the use of playing cards and poker chips, which reflects... well a bit of the Old West if your version of the Old West happens the Old TV show Maverick. Actually, it doesn't provide much of even that to be honest. Beyond the cards and the chips, it's just a handful of dice game paired with a magic system offering a high fumble rate. We can see how important all the system flavor was when it was dropped in the newer editions of the game for a universal system with some setting related Chrome.
All in all, I'm at a loss to point out a real example where the rules really reflect and invoke the setting. The actually work is done by setting fluff, renaming common concepts and using them, constructing NPCs to the proper power level, or a bit of Chrome here and there. I'll be interested if anyone can point out a true example.
Thus I've sided with the Universal Systems that I can learn once, take off the shelf and add a bit to. The final result is every bit as good as anything a custom rule set has ever offered- but with additional expandability built right in.
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Exalted is the best example I can think of. The rules themselves have deep ties into the world metaphysics.
For instance, each of the 25 abilities has a constellation in the night sky (aka the status screen of the Loom of Fate). Stunting is known in-game as the ability for heroes to temporarily change reality around them.
A lot of these things could be considered chrome and aren't exactly *necessary* to the game but they do help construct a fully-realized world.
Exalted is at its core the World of Darkness Story Teller system with some additional Chrome. Thus it's an example of how easy it is to slightly alter a existing system for a new setting.
Looking at your definition of core mechanic under the Design by Exception comments, I can start to see the disconnect.
The distinction between Solars, Lunars, Sidereals and so on is clearly an exception-based part of the design. The idea of Ability + Attribute and the resolution mechanic are clearly core mechanics.
The stuff in the middle is things that I would put under core mechanic. For example, every character is capable of using Occult to bargain with the spirit of the river. That's something that Exalted allows because the setting is completely animist and something that isn't present in any other Storyteller game.
Whether it was based on Attribute+Ability Dice Pools, 3d6 Roll-Under, Roll-and-Keep or even a d20 isn't the important bit. Choosing a probability generator is the easy part of game design. The hard and important bit is designing the pieces that help people have the right experience for the setting.
Imagine a cyberpunk RPG without any support for hacking, or a fantasy dungeon crawler RPG with just one roll for combat. Who really wants that?
Leaving aside for the moment that I've meant a great number of people online who would wish to resolve combat "with just one roll"...
If your really think that a game built upon a long standing system like Story Teller is custom built instead of modified when moved to a setting, well there's nothing I can say that will change your mind. It's soundly fixed in its current course.
> Leaving aside for the moment that I've meant a great number of people
> online who would wish to resolve combat "with just one roll"...
In dungeon crawling games? Even Dungeon World (which is very abstract) allows for flow backwards and forwards in combat situations.
However, I can see other styles of game like spy thrillers and political maneuvering really benefiting from one roll combat. This is why I was specific about the kind of games I was talking about.
If you've got any references to dungeon crawlers wanting to one-roll combats, I'd love to read it.
> If your really think that a game built upon a long standing system like
> Story Teller is custom built instead of modified when moved to a setting,
> well there's nothing I can say that will change your mind. It's soundly
> fixed in its current course.
I think it's more of a difference between our definitions. To me, a modified system only has a few changes and a custom build may be similar at some levels but isn't really compatible. D&D 3.5 to Pathfinder is a modification. D&D 4 was custom built based on the lessons of D&D 3.5.
As far as I can understand this discussion so far, a system has to create it's own dice mechanic to be considered a custom set of rules rather than a modification. Is that right or too far in the other direction?
I'm curios about another thing too. Where do you consider the dividing line between core mechanics and chrome in the specific example of Exalted?
I generally agree with most of your post on this, certainly as it pertains to games that actually try to make the generic aspect of the design a feature. The only game I can think of offhand that diverges from that a little bit is the Palladium system. The addition of M.D.C. to Rifts alters the game rather significantly (not for the better, in my opinion). Mechanically, it's not a huge difference, but I think Rifts is a very different game from Palladium because of it.
Simon Gill:
In dungeon crawling games?
Yes for dungeon crawls.
From memory, examples include RISUS or The Window (when used for a dungeon crawl).
Related is the desire for very quick and simple combats where an entire battle can be decided in under 5 minutes. I see a lot of OSR people claiming this, although to do so a great many rules aren't used.
Why do people do this? Difficult for me to say. If I disliked combat that much, I'd get rid of completely myself.
Simon Gill:
To me, a modified system only has a few changes and a custom build may be similar at some levels but isn't really compatible.
Perhaps consider it in reverse will help. Take AD&D as the system, now let's do a serious change- remove the Cleric Class and Magic.
Let's add a Class called Witch, and a new set of spells for them.
Is it still AD&D? I'd say yes. It may have been made more setting specific, however the changes were in total minor.
Same with Exalted. We switch around abilities, and we add stunting (which is something I've heard of being house ruled into original WoD games in any case). It's just not that big of deal to me.
I'd go further into what I'd see as core and Chrome for the WoD games, but I no longer own any of them for reference. However core generally consists of basic character general, combat and skill resolution.
Rognar
Well as I said in the previous article, in much of game design the Chrome is often far more important than the core rules.
This certainly is the case for the M.D.C. in Rifts.
I guess I don't fully understand what you mean by Chrome.
This is an compelling idea, and I can think of two games that might be interesting in the context.
"My Life With Master" is placed in the generic Hammer Horror Film setting, and explicitly seeks to create that genre's ethos and experience. All of its mechanics are deliberately designed --from their names to what they let PCs do to how every choice slowly but inevitably reveals the PC's likely fate in endgame--to create the experience.
On the other hand, the FATE system as applied to the "Dresden Files RPG" so perfectly fits the setting that it might as well have been custom-made: the importance of meaning and symbol over action, the ability to fly by the seat of your pants, the mechanic of getting soundly beaten early on in order to control your destiny later, all of these are inextricably embodied in both the Dresden Files novels and the FATE system... but the FATE system is also an amazingly generic and robust system capable of fielding a number of other settings, experiences, and ethea.
Rognar:
Why the question?
Upon reflection, I realized that I have long forgotten the details about M.D.C. having encountered it once in Robotech where it can across to me as a 'vehicles only' system. I can't remember if it was identical to the normal system (just scaled up) or not- and that would be key in determing if it was Core or Chrome.
BESW don't really have much to say about the first, other than the fact that I don't like Forge style story-games and really don't pay them any mind.However I seriously doubt the game does anything that I couldn't do free form (a typical problem with Forge style designs).
As for Dresden and FATE, FATE is just Fudge with some additonal stuff tacked on. So it sort of proves my point.
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