I often see this or that system described as 'Gritty'. Like most terms in the hobby, its exact meaning varies by the user contributing to flamewars and failures of understanding.
I for example tend to think of the darker genres, lacking a moral compass or if having one- always finding it betrayed. Others tend to view it as a simple matter of how dangerous combat is. Others yet seem to feel that gritty == realistic for some reason. And yet others think it's all that and perhaps more.
Sometime the context tells you what is meant. Saying HERO System can't do gritty for example (they be wrong btw) most likely means the second or third option above, although someone feeling that HERO can't do amoral systems can't be completely discounted.
With all this in mind, the term just isn't that useful for me. At best it can serve as a label to attract attention, so that you'll have time to express what's really meant.
This is something of a pity as words should mean specific things, otherwise they lose their value. In most areas, terms are defined by the profession. If one says LDAP when talking about Active Directory- the meaning is clear. And one says Film Noir about a movie, it's almost as clear despite the fact that movies are by nature more vague than technology.
However the RPG profession is more of a hobby than a profession. No one drives terms and their meaning, not even 'professional' companies like WotC. The result is endless flamewars with people talking pass each other.
Such is the enviroment in which we play. Rather depressing isn't it?
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See, that's funny. I'd always equated gritty with detailed, lethal combat, such as Rolemaster.
@Zachary The First: I thought I grouped that in with "Others tend to view it as a simple matter of how dangerous combat is". Guess another option is 'detailed and dangerous'.
Which sort of adds to my point :)
Most of the RPG-terms are bad. "Broken rules?" That can mean anything from grammatically incorrect, illogical, or over-balanced. It can even just mean that in the speaker's opinion the rule 'sucks.'
Forget 'story'--what about the damage done to 'plot'? Using that term implies to some people heavy GM-railroading--to other's, the villain's plans in motion (back-story).
And even "railroading" is subject to disagreement. Does it mean a linear campaign that is scripted by the GM? Does it mean *any* game where the participants agree on on a specific direction at the outset (i.e. "going down in the dungeon" is a railroaded game because it isn't sand-box style?). Does the term derive from linearity of the "track" or from the coercive meaning (as in to "railroad a bill through congress")?
Grainyness with reference to a stat system can mean stats come in large "chunks" (Marvel Supers) or very fine chunks ("Percentage systems are too grainy for me--who cares about 66% vs. 67%?").
Basically there is no way to talk about RPGs without having a lot of context and back-and-forth. This has led to unintentionally hilarious evaluations of game's how-to-GM texts.
-Marco
Gotta be honest with you, bud; from the examples you've given, you're the only one with an aberrant definition of the word. I personally have never seen 'gritty' used outside of the context of lethal combat (and bear in mind most people do conflate 'lethal' and 'realistic').
It can certainly come with the WFRP baggage of grimy people fighting smelly orcs in the sewer of the slums as well, but inevitably it comes back to the combat system.
@marcochacon: Yeah, most conversations are made more difficult from the start by this same issue. Some are worse than others.
@Lord Rocket: I guess we travel in different circles then as I've seen all the above and more.
I usually see "dark" used to mean amoral and, well, dark, and "gritty" to mean both lethal and realistic - in that you're more likely to starve to death and/or die of infected wounds in a gritty game than in a game where you handwave that kind of thing. I most often see "dark and gritty" used together, which eliminates any confusion.
@Swordgleam: I agree that seeing "Dark & Gritty' together does help. Often however I see one or the other used in a way that contains what's left out.
What's interesting is that what most people think of as "lethal and realistic' is anything but IMO. Thus even here (using both terms), it only moves the confusion.
I always defined a game gritty if the paper pulp gets stuck between my teeth when I eat the rule book!
I have seen it used in terms other than combat too.
@ Gleichman
Maybe. I mostly just lurk at RPG.net and theRPGsite.com (among friends I prefer the term 'brutal' for much the same sort of thing).
Now, especially at RPG.net (since the other one doesn't get many rec type threads) whenever someone requests recommendations for a 'gritty' or even a realistic game they inevitably get people bringing up games with lethal combat systems. See also the third post in this thread ('added deadliness').
Now, you could run a 'gritty' game using a system with a less lethal combat system, simply by requesting your players create down-and-outs, keeping them relatively low in the world, and ensuring their actions have consequences (which is the sort of 'gritty' you generally get with fiction people might describe as such - say, Dashiell Hammett or Jim Thompson). But that wouldn't necessarily make it a 'gritty' system as per the seemingly standard definition.
Its all about context - sure, you occasionally see people talk about 'gritty superheroes' and things but almost inevitably mean the backstory, campaign story arc and their character's motivations and actions. Again, it doesn't mean its a gritty system, which is what we're talking about, right?
Man am I ever sick of the word gritty.
@Lord Rocket: See, I look at those examples you gave and I plainly see the desire at points to:
1st example: the poster split realism from gritty as if it's two different things. Does gritty mean even more dangerous (lethal) than reality?
2nd example: Questionable moral backgrounds and favor.
Now I expect any thread to contain gritty==deadly, it's common. I also expect it to contain the other meanings if it's of any length.
And yeah, I'm sick of a lot of words used in the hobby. Everyone has their own version and it's tough to talk to people.
To be fair, however, words having fluid definitions is pretty standard for English.
Without some need for professional standard jargon, it's to be expected.
I try to make it a habit of always defining the terms I am using. It is not easy, as the way one uses terminology is usually highly obvious for oneself, but less so for others.
(Words can also have fluid definitions where jargon is highly necessary. In mathematics several words have very different, though often on some level related, meanings. And in mathematics precise use of language is extremely important.)
@L: I think that's sort of the point I'm making, the hobby lakes professionalism, and thus lakes the language that professionals bring to the table.
I blame WotC and the other 'large' companies who ran theirselves as hobbies although I think the power invested in the GM and players of rpgs also have a influence.
But I'm not sure the hobby gains anything from professional jargon in this manner. I suppose it could be useful for designers to have a standard jargon, but ad copy is just going to ignore/overwrite it anyway.
@L: It's about as useful for the hobby as it is in other hobbys.
To use an example, in Books you have High Fantasy, Low Fantasy, Dark Fantasy, Urban Fantasy, etc. The buyer knows from the labeling generally what he's getting- and that's a good thing IMO.
But the greatest use would be for people who read blogs or post on message boards. It would be nice to have at least some common language.
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