It's something of a sad world when people can't tell the difference between Tolkien's Middle Earth and the world of Warhammer. One is the very definition of High Fantasy, and the other a excellent example of Dark Fantasy.
Noisms is so much a creature of the post-modern mindset, that he finds it impossible to tell the difference between a world of conflict where evil wins because there is no good (Warhammer), and a world marred by conflict where evil is completely defeated (Middle Earth). He mistakes the battle and passing failures for the outcome and the meaning of the struggle.
High Fantasy isn't about darknesss and failure- it's about overcoming darkness and failure. Simply put that requires darkness and failure along the way so that it can be overcomed. That's how it works.
In his error I think Noism is a common example of how people think these days. So focused on the 'need' to see all points of view as equal- that they've lost the ability to think at all. Everything is the same, to say otherwise requires judgement. And judgement itself is an act of discrimination (the only true evil) to the modern mindset.
A sad world indeed.
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I'm thinking there's a point here... but I can't quite figure out what it is. Is this social commentary? An illustration on the differences between genres? Or just a rant about how someone is an idiot?
It's all three.
I found LotR to be very sad, with the elves and the magic going away. The feeling was similar, though far less intense, to the feeling that my grandfather passing away caused.
Even with good winning I can't but see LotR as a sad tale. From that perspective it can be seen to be similar to Warhammer. This is not to say that they are similar in other ways, but both are in a way melancholic. I think noisms was going for some similar analogue.
I think he has a few interesting points there, but I agree that he's off-base about the overriding themes of the two settings. Tolkien's work is about change, ultimately. Change in the form of the passing away of things and the creation of new ones.
This is both a sad and joyous thing, and carries opportunities for redemption in addition to great perils. All this is captured very well in the books, I think.
Warhammer is about change too, but only for the worse. Degradation and dissolution are not opportunities for anything good, only more chances to fail, or to create new ways for things to get worse.
Maybe that's the difference between Dark Fantasy and High Fantasy. The option for change to bring improvement.
@Wickedmurph: I think you hit the difference rather well.
It's true that High Fantasy is about change, and often about the end of the age of magic- a requirement for Men to decide their own fate rather than having it being decided for them by powers greater than they.
That is completely opposed to 'all falls to the gods of chaos'.
Okay... on the social commentary side, I think for one. LotR released a miniatures supplement through games workshop, so that could be contributing to the muddled impressions but more than that I think the problem you're illustrating where people aren't understanding the differences between High Fantasy and Dark Fantasy is due to anime.
That's what I said, Anime.
See... we're visual creatures, and the word "dark" is a visual cue. We associate dark settings with bleached out, gritty looking visuals, and the LotR cover art in the movies has that look. WFRP has the same look in it's book so superficially they come across as kinda similar.
Now, if LotR threw out the brown and tan colors from it's palette and expanded it's character's eyeballs into 3 times the size, then the differences between High Fantasy and dark fantasy would be quite obvious.
Not that my little observation will make your point any less valid or cheer you up any, but maybe it'll give you some cathartic ranting material.
I had a long comment ready to post, but in the end, what on earth would be the point? It should be obvious to anybody who reads my original post that this is just a rather silly hatchet job, and your comments about postmodernism and the need to see all things as equal are simply too bizarre to bother arguing over.
@Helmsman: Oh that is a depressing idea. But I think you may have a point. Not that anime is the cause, but that with anime (and pop culture) as the only background they know to any extent- this is where they end up.
Or to quote an email I got (who also used anime as a example):
"When you eliminate an understanding of the Classics, the Bible, and Christianity, a lot of people lose the context of works of art and
literature. I see the same thing with anime fans. They don't have a good enough understanding of Japanese culture to see the real story."
@noisms: You come here, talk big but put up nothing but claims of 'hatchet jobs" and have the nerve to to tell me on your blog: "Kindly don't post comments in my blog unless you intend to take a polite and respectful tone."
You're a grade one idiot, without a even a basic clue to what High Fantasy/Dark Fantasy is, what Middle Earth is about, or even what the term Hypocrite means it seem.
You want respect- prove you deserve it. You can start by learning from your errors and correcting them.
I was perfectly happy to leave our relationship at that, but then I saw this post in my RSS feed and couldn't let it stand. Most people have the class not to write blog posts slagging off other bloggers (who they've never met and know nothing about), so I was surprised to see this and felt I ought to have the chance to defend myself.
I did ask you to speak in a respectful tone in the comments to my blog, but scratch that - I have no interest in the respect of pointlessly aggressive, sef-important people, and the idea of debating anything with such a person is thoroughly depressing. I hope for your sake that this attitude is just a persona you adopt on the internet.
@noisms: People are known by their deeds online, and I wouldn't have even wasted my time on you if not for your deed of grossly missrepresenting Middle Earth.
Error of that level should never get a pass. You write in public, learn to deal with public reactions.
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